Broadcast Exchange: Building the home of hockey in Canada, Sportsnet’s new broadcast facility

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Working through the pandemic, Sportsnet was able to transform former office space inside its corporate headquarters into a new broadcast facility for hockey coverage, complete with two studios, a control room and the latest in augmented reality.

Jason Harding, VP, creative at Rogers Communications, joins the Broadcast Exchange to take us inside the new facility, the technology and how they’re evolving hockey coverage – including the historic “Hockey Night in Canada” – with augmented reality from Zero Density and LED technology from Samsung.

Plus, we take a look at the new motion graphics and on-air design of Sportsnet. 

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The below transcript appears in an unedited format.

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Dak: Today, I’m joined by Jason Harding, the VP of Creative for Sportsnet. Working through the pandemic, supply chain shortages, and lots of new technology, Sportsnet was able to completely transform its broadcast facility relocating in Toronto, upgrading its graphics, and debuting a new studio.

Well, welcome Jason to the Broadcast Exchange. It’s not every day that we see this level of investment in Canada. The amount of technology, the design, you’ve really put together a cohesive package for the new Sportsnet facility. Why don’t you walk us through what all is involved?

Jason: We’re super excited about it. Formally our hockey facility production space was in another location. And so we moved it onto our campus so that the collaboration and communication could flow a little bit better. Our creative teams working away from our production folks and our digital folks being separated from… It just was causing so many pain points in terms of building out our content and collaborating a show-to-show. So it was really important for us to get under one roof. We’ve been up three months, four months, and it does blow my mind we got there. It was a request that was made a year before we actually launched into a new space, into a space that wasn’t designed primarily for broadcast. This is really a corporate office space that we then had to turn into a broadcast facility.

Jason: It was tons of challenges. One of them being, we were located right on a corner of a busy street. And so, finding the soundproofing that we needed. There’s a Subway nearby. And so there’s rattle, hum and shake, and everything that goes along with that. And so we had to make sure foundationally we were secure and steady and rock solid, so our cameras wouldn’t see that slight movement when a subway goes underneath. So there were a lot of things that we had to work up against and in a short timeline in the middle of a pandemic, which to me was the biggest speed bump, I think, that we had between supply chain issues and people working from home, not being able to go into the space at certain points in time when it was crucial to do so.

Jason: So we really had no room whatsoever for mistakes, but we knew we had to bet big on this. So, as you said, these things don’t happen all that often in Canada. Though they do happen. I think compared to what you guys have in the US, the scale is a little bit different. We may not go as big and we may not go as often, but when we do, we go pretty hard.

Jason: We knew we were going to have one chance to do this and we wanted to make sure it was outfitted with the most up to date technology, but also with supply for what we are doing today, but also with an eye to the future. So that was really where it all started. We’ve got 22 LED displays between two different studios, which is about… When you break it down to square footage and when we did this map, it blew my mind because we weren’t going about it thinking about square footage, but it’s 1,200 square foot. A visible display area, which is insane, which is more than most people’s condos that were working on the job.

Jason: Within that, is this massive 50′ x 9′ floor to ceiling LED wall that we call the Cove. And that serves for “Hockey Night in Canada” as sort of our main setup. And they’re all Samsung IER series displays with a 1.5 millimeter pixel count. I had mentioned that because when you walk in there, one of the first things you notice is the quality of those displays. It’s insane. We went in educated. We worked with Samsung and diversified to make sure the monitors and displays were up to what we needed them to be. But I hadn’t seen it to the point that we could use these displays as set extensions. So you look at the Cove. When we build out 3D set backgrounds, you can be two feet from that monitor and not even know that that’s a flat space. It’s insane. We build out this one ledge and I was showing some of our executives around the studio and one of the guys was ready to put his foot on the lower ledge, and I had to kind of “Hey. This is a 2D plane. That 3D is built in the design.” So it goes to show you how powerful and how amazing those monitors and displays are.

Jason: So it’s two sets. One’s about 35 on a square feet. And it’s built in a 360 fashion so that no matter where you’re shooting from, you are good to go. We were talking about doing some 360 degree shooting setups on certain desks. So we needed to be able to shoot in the round. And that was really important to us. And that main set has countless numbers of areas that we can either put the desk in or have stand-ups or demos, you name it.

Jason: And one of the things we were big on was versatility. We needed this place to be versatile. So everything’s… Well, not everything. So much of it is mobile. And the second set is a little bit smaller and it’s about 270 degrees. And then behind that is a green screen. It’s a small green setup that houses our AR and our VR capabilities. And that’s a muscle that we are now just starting to get into. We haven’t had it previously to the scale that we’ve invested into it this time. And I think the technology is… Clearly, you see it across the industry, but the technology’s ready for prime time in a way that I don’t know that it was five or six years ago when we did our last set.

Jason: So that’s it in a nutshell. Versatility was key in having our desks mobile, having some of our stages mobile. And one of the things I said early on, this is going to be a win if our production teams use it in ways that I haven’t even thought of yet. That’s the kind of versatility we were hoping for. We had ideas on what we wanted it to be and how it could be used, but the real win was going to be in getting our production teams on the ground, in the studios, and actually bringing that to fruition. And thankfully in that first week, they had moved things around in a way that I was like, “Oh my Lord, I didn’t even think of that. This is amazing. Success.” So it’s going really well. And still figuring out different areas to use on the space, and the teams are finding new and different ways to approach the space and make the best use of it for the content and the stories they’re telling.

Dak: To back up for a second and kind of set the scene. Sportsnet previously was at the CBC building in downtown Toronto. And then also for a while you had some studios in the basement of Hyatt in Toronto as well.

Jason: Right.

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Dak: And I stayed at the Hyatt many times. So, with this relocation, what were the goals? You mentioned collaboration. What did the management really want to see as you were putting this all together?

Jason: The collaboration was massive. You talk about the Hyatt. My creative team at one time were located in that hotel space. The hockey production team were at the CBC, and then the rest of Sportsnet were at One Mount Pleasant. And so we were in three different locations. It was a challenge to say the least. I mean, you get things done and it’s all good, and you don’t even recognize how important that is until we all got into one space. And I’ve said this countless times. The amount of creativity and the streamlining and efficiency that we’ve found by just being in the same space, being able to go down the hall and have a conversation with a producer versus an email chain that gets misconstrued or misunderstood or a phone call that body language can’t be read, these virtual Zoom calls and meetings that happen all the time now weren’t a part of the regular workflow back then. And even when we did the studio, it doesn’t really… Creatively, I think it stunts a lot of that back and forth and the brainstorming.

Jason: And the ability for one idea and to blossom into many ideas when they get into other people’s hands. You get into a very one way collaboration routine when you’re working remotely. It’s, “Here’s what I need. I need it by 4:00.” Whereas when we’re in same building and the same space, you can start talking about, “I love the idea. I was thinking about this.” And all of a sudden, you’re… I’ve seen on countless occasions now since we’ve been in the same space. Get guys getting around whiteboards and really tracing out the possibilities of what they’re asking and what they’re thinking about and where it can go.

Jason: That has been a huge one. That was a big reason for the move, but it was also something that’s been in the works for a while. We knew the remote workflow wasn’t going to work long term. Having your production facilities all over one house makes so much sense for so many reasons. From technical to collaboration, all the way to the content you produce. It just makes everything so much easier and so much more seamless.

Dak: So, obviously, the pandemic and some of the supply chain shortages did impact this project. What other kind of roadblocks did you have to overcome to bring it all together?

Jason: Those were major ones. A project of this size involves many, many people. And so, I would say getting everyone aligned and going in the same direction wasn’t a challenge, but we had to be mindful of it. Everybody was on board. As soon as we said “Go” on this project, there was a ton of excitement and passion around it. So getting everyone on board wasn’t a problem. Keeping everybody on the same page and moving in the same direction isn’t always the easy task on projects of this scale. When you make a decision at the top of the chain without thinking of how it impacts the end user, it’s easy to run into pitfalls and things to fall between the cracks. I put a ton of credit on our project management teams that sort of corralled all of these stakeholders and all these various departments who all had the same agenda and same goal in mind, but different ideas on how to get there.

Jason: So that I would say… Absolutely, it became actually a really strong muscle by the end of it. Was something that was key to the success of this project. The pandemic, obviously, and the supply chain shortage was a challenge, but the nice thing about it was we had a very accepting executive group and team. They understood what we were going through. They understood that there may be issues. We had plan A, B and C if various things happened and we weren’t able to launch on the day that we wanted to launch. Thankfully we didn’t have to use them, but we were ready for any eventuality knowing that gave our leadership team the confidence to know that we’re going to get there. It’s just a matter of when and how. The start of hockey wasn’t going to change because we couldn’t get our stuff together. So, thankfully, we had it together and I would say… So, project management was the big one and we had a really great project management team to keep us all rowing in the same direction.

Dak: I say for those folks not from Canada that aren’t familiar, you also have your kind of rolling truck broadcast studio for Hometown Hockey. So I assume that had to be one of the backup plans to be broadcasting from a tractor trailer on the side of the highway. Worst case.

Jason:
Oh, yeah. The different ways we could have gone to air that day would blow your mind, but we were going to get to air most definitely.

Dak: So you mentioned at the top all the fun new 10 technology you have. Whether it’s the screens that just… When your last studio was built, using that much LED just wasn’t a design trend at that time and just wasn’t there. And now you have the LED, you have the virtual. What’s your favorite part from the creative angle to be able to use and put into practice?

Jason: I love what we’re doing right now. The quality of… Even on broadcast, you sometimes think you’re looking at a set piece. And so, we’re using that to our advantage. And we’re starting to think about those displays in different ways and how we can use them in different ways. And some really exciting new opportunities are starting to present themselves. I’m super excited about where we’re going and what’s coming. The one I got a ton of passion for is the VR/AR. I think, like I mentioned earlier, the technology is there to really do some impactful and cool stuff within broadcast. And it’s a muscle we’re building right now. We’ve done about, I don’t know, probably eight to 10 different executions throughout the year. That’s one of those things that was impacted by supply chain. So we didn’t get it in time to kind of hit the ground running for launch, but we’ve made up a lot of time and we’re starting to slowly roll out a lot of the different ways that will impact our future broadcast.

Jason: So that excites me. I think it’s about, A, building the technical muscle. There’s a lot involved from coding to design, to onset direction. So we’re getting all those teams together to make sure they’re rowing in the same direction. And some of the things we’ve done already are some really cool storytelling initiatives. On Saturday, we looked at John Tavares and his evolving face off stance. The guys had put John Tavares circa a few years ago when he was playing for the Islanders. And then John Tavares today faced off against [inaudible 00:13:08]. It was a really cool execution and allowed, in a really simple way, our viewers to see the difference in the stance and where his hands are. It came off the page in a way that you can’t do with broadcast monitors or even the LED displays.

Jason: So that was pretty… I thought, a very simple example of where this thing is going to go, not just from storytelling, but the wow factor and getting way ahead of ourselves really. At the media day, the actual media day, we had a bunch of 3D scans of various players that we’re hoping to integrate within our studio space for comparison, for context, a whole bunch of different storytelling. And then just for wow. One of the things I keep telling my team or urging my team… It doesn’t take much urging because they’re amazing and are about it themselves, but sometimes we get caught up in the minutia of the storytelling and it’s like, “Think about opportunities to wow,” because right now what we’re trying to do is build a muscle and learn. Getting out of our own way and really finding cool, interesting ways to use the technology and integrate it into the broadcast. It doesn’t always have to be a storytelling device. Sometimes it can be a surprise and delight or a wow for the viewer and just a different way of approaching our standard broadcast.

Jason: As we build that muscle, as our teams get stronger and stronger and quicker and quicker in that space, I’m super excited about where it’s going. We’ve got some ideas for Stanley Cup. We’ve got some ideas for Trade Deadline that are going to, I think, impact the quality and the production value of some of our shows.

And so, I’m excited. And that Zero Density has set us up in a really… Really in a way that we’re going to… It’s going to be hard for us to fail on this front. It’s backed by Unreal Engine, which is being used across the board now. It’s opening up a ton of opportunities that I’m super excited about. Again, this is one of those things where if… We’re going to win when I see something that I never thought I would see or never had imagined was going to be possible. And that day is coming and it’s going to come quick.

Dak: The Unreal Engine, the way that they have gobbled up market share rapidly overnight in the world of broadcasting, it follows this larger trend of the gamification of a lot of broadcasting of Fox Sports here in the states. They are bringing these big pops of excitement into some… Even the score bug that you would’ve never thought would be there. The tech stack you’ve set up to allow this creation of these new graphics, walk us through the stack you’ve built for it.

Jason: You see all this technology around you and I did a demo for all of our executives of some of the possibilities in the AR world. You look at all this expensive technology, the motion tracking and at the end of the day, none of it works without the stickers on the ceiling that are about… I imagine 45 cents per. The motion tracking through Mo-Sys has been a game-changer for us. And just so incredibly cool.

Dak: Are you all starting the production process for these ARs in something like Cinema 4D or are you using it straight and unreal?

Jason: Straight in Unreal. For the most part, we’re trying to get our folks to make use of the real-time 3D engine. And I’m hoping over time, that’s going to really pay massive dividends. One of the things, efficiency is massive in our space. We do so much volume. We do so many productions. We do so much content that we need to be constantly thinking about, not just what we’re doing and what we’re creating and how great it’s going to be, but how are we going to then scale that? And how are we going to produce that volume in a way that keeps up with production, that keeps up with the team that we’re here to create for?

Dak: In terms of the other technology, what else is kind of powering the production?

Jason: Our insert package is fed through Chyron, and then XPression is taking care of our monitors and our score bug, actually. Those are the pieces that are feeding the show for the most part.

Dak: And is that the same… Are you using Ross Video XPression also on the production trucks for hockey?

Jason: That’s a constant debate inside of our space. I don’t think we’ve landed anywhere in particular because we’re straddling in a bunch of areas because we do got to think about our remote trucks and what they have access to and what other people are trained on. We’re not an island. We’re often working with multiple production companies and remote trucks and various crews. So we’ve got to do what’s right for us, but also be mindful of what’s going to make our partners’ lives easy and set them up for success as well.

Dak: And then not only taking on a new studio, but at the same time, you also rolled out a new motion graphics package that’s now hit NHL, and seen on the NBA as well.

Jason: 2021 was a year. I don’t think there was a part of our network that we didn’t touch. On top of the studio, we worked on a new insert package. We revamped all of our graphic packages for “Hometown Hockey,” “Hockey Night in Canada,” Wednesday, and our night hockey and our regional shows. We did new opens for them, graphic opens for them as well as introduced a new insert package, which as you know, is a massive undertaking for any network. Volumes in creative across the world, I’m sure, have ramped up partly because we’re no longer… Particularly in broadcast. We’re no longer just servicing one medium. We got to think about all of our social feeds. We got to think about our digital feed. We are servicing multi-mediums in a way that we weren’t doing even five years ago. We were touching them, but we weren’t building campaigns for them. We weren’t designing elements necessarily for them. And now it’s all on, all the time, everywhere. So doing all of this in the same year, I couldn’t be more proud of our teams for the way in which they stepped up to the challenge and delivered not just in volume, but in quality. It’s really insane and super impressive.

Jason: So what we did with our new package, as we talk about efficiencies and being able to keep up with the onslaught of work that’s always coming partly because of new mediums, but partly because our broadcast teams and our production teams are asking for more and looking for more. Updating our insert package was an opportunity to kind of right-size our efficiencies. And we went to a more modern, a cleaner 2D look and feel. Also a lot more colorful than we’ve been in the past.

Jason: Historically, we’ve been very 3D heavy, very cobalt blue, heavy in our cobalt blue, and stuck to it. What we’ve done is introduced team colors into our insert package. Leaning on our cobalt blue and our brand colors to sort of ground and be a foundation for all of that, but not being afraid to utilize team colors which is making our match-ups pop. It’s making our score bugs look a little bit more unique and bespoke. And it’s really created a much, like I mentioned, cleaner, more contemporary look than we’ve had in the past.

Jason: And then we talked about the efficiencies. The render times for said designs are no longer what they used to be. The design times are no longer what they used to be. The turnaround has improved and increased and it’s allowing our teams to actually spend time designing and less time rendering and moving around a 3D space that can be cumbersome when you’re working on heavier projects.

Dak: Are most of the graphics rendered in real-time or you still having to use something like cinema to render out elements?

Jason: Depending on what it is. Most of it is rendered out in real-time now. For certain asks, we may have to go in and work on cinema or whatever after effects or whatever the case may be, but those are rarities. And now we can afford the time to do that, to make something extra special or a little bit different, or spend a little bit more time on some higher priority initiatives or higher priority ideas. We’re not spending as much time on the day to day and that’s made a massive impact on our teams and allow them to think a bit differently and opened up opportunities to do different things and spend a little bit more time in VR and AR and think about where the broadcast is going, and less about our list of daily deliverables.

Dak: And along with some of the efficiencies, was there any other aspect on the kind of the creative intent side for the new package? It looks like there’s a lot of layering going on, a lot of some insertion of some imagery.

Jason: We leaned into that flat 2D look and bring some color and punch to it. When you look at where we were versus where we are, it’s night and day. Basically it was a sculpting exercise mainly. We looked at where we were and where we wanted to be and where we wanted to go. We sort of carved out the things that we felt were weighing us down and whether that’s from a workflow perspective or a design perspective. We took everything into account holistically. Imagery is a big one. We use photography to drive a lot of our design work or some of our insert elements. And it’s a big part of the way we’re using our displays in studio onset and in our shows. Great photography is a major part of where we are.

Jason: Now, we treat it a little differently now than we had in the past where… And not to say we don’t cut out, but everything we did was a cut-out. And, again, from efficiency perspective, there’s that, but the reality is we were cutting out really great images. And we’ve allowed our designers and our production folks to use the entirety of some of this imagery and take advantage of the beauty that was there versus always cutting out and isolating players because the reality is, even when you look at our graphic packages, the openings we’ve done, yes, our design was a big part of it. But what we introduced that we hadn’t in previous iterations was the motion and the fans and the excitement of the game. And sometimes when you’re designing a little bit in a vacuum, you forget what it’s all about sometimes, right? And what we want to do is bring back the game and bring back the passion and the excitement and the reasons fans want to stand up out of their seats. Allowing our fans to live vicariously through the fans, the greatest imagery that we’ve seen of fans and implement that into some of these openings. It was more about getting the viewer wrapped up as you lead into the broadcast. Getting them excited about what they’re about to see and the stars that are going to make their day.

Jason: And so, we really tried to take a viewer first approach to a lot of the design work and a lot of the graphic packages that we built out because, I mean, that’s what it’s all about, right? It’s that excitement, it’s the fun, it’s the passion behind sport. And we really wanted to showcase that piece of it.

Dak: Definitely as an American viewer, tuning in it, it definitely stood out in kind of the marketplace. And that leads to a perfect question on brand differentiation. How do you think about setting Rogers apart from, say, TSN or some of the other sports and the new media operations as well there entering the market?

Jason: Yeah. I think for us it’s about design. Where we’re going from a design perspective is new and it’s unique to us, and I think that shift is really starting to pay dividends. You were seeing it in a lot of our research around our creative diagnostics. You don’t need to necessarily see our logo to know it’s a Sportsnet ad or a Sportsnet at-a-home poster or graphic element. And so, that’s telling us we’re on the right track.

Jason: Yeah. And the other thing is storytelling. The stories we tell on a daily basis and in every show, it’s not just about analysis and hot takes. It’s about fandom. It’s about players. It’s about stories. We’re incredibly lucky and privileged to be able to bring Canadians together to showcase and broadcast the sports that they celebrate and love. We know that’s a privilege and we take that very seriously. And so, our storytelling reflects the love of that idea that united by sport. We see from Hometown Hockey, whether it’s looking at the sport from a community level and what it means to these pockets of communities or whether we’re taking great stories from the pro ranks. And you’ll see a little bit more of that in our “Hockey Night in Canada” broadcast, but I think storytelling in our design work are big differentiators from any other sports media broadcaster.

Dak: So in terms of looking at the marketplace, where do you look for inspiration?

Jason: When we were designing the studio, when we were designing the package, the team was constantly just sharing ideas. And whether it’s from architecture or retail, you walk through them all these days, at least in Canada, I assume it’s the same in the US. What Nike does in a lot of their stores is next level. When we were in Chicago doing the NHL Media Day, we constantly go retail hopping, not to buy anything necessarily, just to see what these brands are doing. And in the US, the scale is next level. And so, something as small as a texture that informs how we play in a certain space and it just… We look everywhere and whether it’s European broadcasts, US broadcasts, even our own competitors. And sometimes it’s about sculpting the things we really dislike to get to the things we really love. And the insert package was a little bit of that, right? We had a vision. We knew we wanted to go a little bit more flat, but there’s a million ways you can skin that one.

Jason: As we chipped away at the things that really were pain points or weren’t resonating for us as a design group, we got to the place where we landed that we’re really proud of and happy about. When we’re looking for inspiration, we don’t leave a stone unturned. And social is a great area to find a lot of that inspiration. It’s just so much there from the big to the small and everything in between. There’s no one place I don’t think that we pulled from, but a myriad of different areas and spaces.

Jason: And then using everyone’s voice within our team. We’ve talked about collaboration quite a bit. And as a creative team, it is super important that we are working together. No one person has exclusivity over brilliant ideas. Being open and willing to share is super important for us. And by the end of it, you’re sometimes hard pressed to remember who did what, where, and when, and how the team sat. Everybody owned it. Everybody owned it. Everybody brought their own inspiration. We did this together. That was a massive of thing. So inspiration’s found everywhere even under your own roof.

Dak: And what should we be watching for? And what’s next for Rogers and Sportsnet?

Jason: So we’re building off some of the learning we’ve done here. I think VR/AR is a space that we’re only going to get stronger in and we’re continually going to push the needle there. And we’re always looking at new ways to engage our audiences, whether that’s on the dial, in a game, on social. And so, we’re about our audiences, we’re about our viewers, and we’re all… Like I said, we’re always looking for new ways to create that engagement. So I think there’s a lot of really exciting things on the horizon. Don’t turn away because there’s lots coming. Once the Stanley Cup hits, we’ve built up a virtual stadium. And so, we’re looking to see how we can… We’re hoping to launch with that, but given the supply chain issues we had. So we’re looking at various ways to use that 3D space and doesn’t need to live only a broadcast. We’re thinking about a hold of bunch of different areas of engagement and lots happening, as you know, I’m sure. You hear of this and see this in your own world. What are your thoughts on what you’ve seen so far?

Dak: Well, one, I hope the St. Louis Blues can make it to those playoffs, but it’s phenomenal what you all have been able to accomplish. Like I said, you don’t see a project of that scale very often in Canada. So you’ve made the most of your budget and you’ve definitely put together something that’s going to be built to last, especially when you think about the way you’ve incorporated and layered in the technology, not just to be technology for technology’s sake, but it’s technology to further the storytelling, which sometimes in the US, the technology is there literally for technology’s sake. So I’m glad that you… As you said, you already have these thoughts and these pieces where you know where you want that technology to take you even if you’re not using it that way today.

Jason: Right. Right. Yeah. And that brings… One of the big things for us was versatility. Today it’s used as our hockey sets primarily almost exclusively, but we wanted to make sure we’re set up so that any one of our brands, any one of our sports could come in, take on that set, and you’re now looking at a total redesign. You’re just looking at how you change what’s in those displays, how you relight our walls because we’ve got LED lighting that is multicolor. And you can brand and change that either of those studios in ways.

Jason: The foundation is similar, but in many ways feels like a completely different space. And that’s one of the reasons we lean so heavily on not just displays, but really high-end LED displays that could sell that rebranding and reimagine look. As we were pitching the studio to our executives, we did a whole bunch of mocks of different ways that you could work with some of the technology and they were amazed at how different it can feel and look, and that’s another one we hadn’t really talked about that was super important to us, and I think is going to pay dividends for years to come. NBA may want to come in for a show or baseball starts to perhaps make use of the space in ways that are different.

Dak: So if all these new systems coming together at such a last-minute, how did you get everyone up to speed for that launch date?

Jason: I have to say our production team performed miracles. The amount of stuff they had to juggle in short order to get to that launch date, blows my mind. Forget anyone else’s mind. It was a lot of new tech, a lot of new processes in a new control room, in a new studio. You had operators and producers and directors just trying to figure out what can be done, let alone learning all of the new tech that was around them. It was a Herculean effort and honestly, they performed miracles. And I don’t… You ask, how did that… I don’t know how they did it, to be honest with you. I just know that they did it, and it was a lot of long hours. And again, a lot of collaboration to get us to that point. Our production team had to lift a heavy, heavy boulder up a massive mountain and they did it. And I think the whole business is super proud of the fact that that was successfully launched on that day. And it doesn’t happen without them being there front and center to take a massive part of the load.

Dak: Well, thanks for taking some time to tell us all about it, and we’ll be watching for what’s on the horizon as the season plays out, and as you start to build that muscle up.

Jason: Yes. Amazing. I can’t wait. I’m looking forward to as much as anybody. As I said, it’s going to be a success when I see things I couldn’t have even thought of when we first just started this journey. And we got a super talented team to deliver on that. Dak, thanks for the time. I do appreciate it. This was a lot of fun.

Dak: Thanks for listening to the Broadcast Exchange. Make sure to subscribe for the latest Broadcast Exchange episodes on your favorite podcast platform, or watch our video episodes on YouTube.

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